Fig.1 typical dimension of QFN package
Above is the typical dimension specification for QFN package. I cann't find the corresponding "T1" as in Fig.1 in the DRS4 documents, nor any of the tolerance of the dimensions, which are usually expressed in the form of a range between a min. value and a max. value.
So will you specify the dimension of "T1" and "W1", and the dimension tolerance of them?
Thanks and best wishes!
Jinhong Wang University of Science and Technology of China
Please find attached the complete dimensions.
Dear Mr. S. Ritt
The following is my confusion about the trigger of DRS4. It mainly concertrates on the generation of trigger signal to stop DRS4 sampling process for readout of sampled waveform.
As metioned in the datasheet of DRS4, the chip samples the analog input every domino sampling period. After finished sampling a waveform, the sampling process can be stoped by lowering the DWRITE while keeping DENABLE high. But the analog input is asychronous to the Domino CLK. Then, how can we know when to stop the domino sampling process to read out the sampled waveform? Of course, a trigger can be used. But from my present knowledge of DRS4, trigger can only be generated from analog input. Analog input is splited into two channels, one to DRS4 analog input, the other to FPGA as the trigger. However, splitting analog inputs increases the system design complexity, and may lower the total performace. So what is your suggestion?
In our system, there are 8 analog inputs to a signal DRS4 chip, the outputs of DRS4 chip are connected to an 8-channel 14 bit ADC ( AD9252). It wold be kind of you to inform me about the most applicable approach for readout of DRS4 sampled wavefrom.
Jinhong Wang (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Indeed you have to make an external trigger. The evaluation board uses the "transparent mode" of the DRS4 to "mirror" the input signal at the output, then puts a comparator there. The schematics of the evaluation board is in the manual. This does then not degrate the analog performance. You can of course also split the signal at the input, this will only add a minor additional load to the input signal, since the load of the DRS4 chips itself is much bigger than that of any comparator.
An alternative is to turn on the transparent mode and continuously digitize all 8 outputs with your AD9252. Then you make the trigger purely digital in your FPGA. You can put there a comparator, or even more complex logic like multiplicity etc. Note however that this causes some latency, since the ADC has a pipeline which is quite long, so you have to buffer the latency of your trigger in the analog window of the DRS4 sampling cells. Like if you run the DRS4 at 1 GSPS, you can accomodate 1024 ns of sampling depth, which is good for maybe 500 ns of trigger latency plus 500 ns of the waveform of interest.
Thank you. The transparent mode can be really helpful. Can you provide me in more details of the chip's transparent mode? I am still confused about the following aspects.
I notice that DRS4 samples the analog wave in the way "clear before write", and in the transparent mode, there will be certain delay before the trigger logic stops the sampling process. So,does it mean that the waveform recording process per Domino sampling cycle will not degrade the amplitude of the analog signal? Hence, for two idential analog inputs, one with a trigger latency of 500 ns and the other of 510 ns, the sampled waveform is identical, what differs is the starting number of the first active sampling cell, where the reading process considered to be started. Is that right? Looking forward to your insight.
Jinhong Wang (email@example.com)
The amplitude of the analog signal is not degraded by the transparent mode, since the signal is buffered on the chip, and the output of this buffer is send off the chip. The waveform digitizing of course requires quite some current to charge up all capacitors, so there is maximum current of ~1mA for 5 GSPS. If you only have a weak signal source, your bandwidth might be limited by that. On the evaluation board for example we use passive transformers to produce the differential input signal from a single-ended signal. Although the transformers are rated 1 GHz Bandwidth, we only achieve 200 MHz with the passive transformers. By using active high speed differential drivers, you can get about 700 MHz right now.
If you have two channels with 500 ns and 510 ns trigger latency, there is no difference in the "domino stop position" since there is only one domino circuit per chip which can be stopped. So the stop position is the same for all eight channels on a chip.
So you mean there is an analog buffer per channel? The analog signal is buffered there, before entering the sampling cells? Then, when will the buffer content be released and cleared? How shall I handle "Dwite" and "Denable" during a complete operation when an analog signal arrives in the transparent mode? I cannot find more information beyond the datasheet, a detailed description of the transparent mode (and the analog buffer, if possible) will be really helpful for me.
Jinhong Wang (firstname.lastname@example.org)
There is one analog buffer per channel at the output, as indicated on the FUNCTIONAL BLOCK DIAGRAM of the datasheet. The section ANALOG INPUTS clearly states that the input signal has to load directly the sampling capacitors.
All other people using the chip so far correctly understood these things so far, so I believe more information beyond the datasheet is not necessary. I believe you have a principal problem of understanding, which can hardly be clarified by email. Best would be if you directly call me, I can then explain things to you.
Dear Mr. S. Ritt
i am Ms. student , am working with your DRS4 board to calculate the time of flight of the cosmic particle which passes trough the hodoscope . i see the signals at scope , which is negative (i don't want to take positive side of the signal).
i am using your drs_exap.cpp file to take the data, i set the analog trigger source , threshold level is negative, like this(b->SetTriggerLevel(-30, true) ); but the exam file also registers the positive side of signal (i think that is spike or internal reflection), is it possible to eliminate this spike? Also i want to register the data just after the threshold value, but that is always triggered, i think that caused from the mode. Is it possible to set the trigger mode to normal in exam file?,and how can i do that?
Ali YILMAZ (email@example.com)
Please note that SetTriggerLevel(level, polarity) needs "level" in volts, not millivolts, so you need SetTriggerLevel(-0.3, true). The trigger mode is not specified with any library call, but depends on what your program does. If you always poll on IsBusy(), then you are already in "normal" mode. The auto mode can only be achieved on the user application level by doing an "artifical" trigger by calling SoftTrigger() if there are no hardware triggers for a certain time.
I have an old-version DRS4 evaluation board which doesn't have the latest firmware. I tried to flash the drs_eval1.ipf boundary scan chain into the XCF02S PROM with Xilinx IMPACT, and the firmware seemed to go through into the PROM. However, when I started the DRS command line interface to test the firmware it kept on reporting errors like
musb_write: requested 10, wrote -116, errno 0 (No error)
musb_read error -116
musb_write: requested 10, wrote -22, error 0 (No error)
and so on. Finally the program made a dumb recognition of the board as
Found mezz. board 0 on USB, serial #0, firmware revision 0
Do you have any idea which caused this problem? Thanks!
A firmware update requires a power cycle of the evaluation board. Have you tried that? I attached for you reference the current drs_eval1.mcs file, which is meant to go into the XCF02S PROM. There were recent changes also in the DRS library, and I'm not sure if yous if recent enough. So I put also the current C files which go with the firmware. They contain also some improvements which should reduce the intrinsic noise of the board.
hello i am an student and i want to do my final project with drs4 board and i really can´t find how to open waveform file and how can i save or opened many of them quickly.
if you can tell me how i will be very grateful.
There is no built-in possibility to open waveform files, you have to write your own programs to do that.
I have saved some waveforms using the oscilloscope application in both binary and xml. I can see that the xml file gives me proper data values but when I try to read the binary file using IDL, it does not seem correct. This is a screen shot of the pulse I saved:
But when I open the binary file in IDL using:
data = uintarr(1024) ;unsigned integer array
;Convert bits to Volts
It looks like the pulse is there but there is something corrupting the data only in binary form. Is there a setting that may not be correct?
Yes, but you have to recompile the oscilloscope application. Find following line in the source file DOFrame.cpp:
m_WFfd = open(filename.char_str(), O_RDWR | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC | O_TEXT, 0644);
and replace it with
m_WFfd = open(filename.char_str(), O_RDWR | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC | O_BINARY, 0644);
that fixes the problem. To compile the program, you need MS Visual C++ and you have to install the vxWidgets library. Let me know if you have any problem with that.
Anyhow I plan a major software update soon (weeks), which not only fixes this problem, but also reduces the noise considerably by doing a kind of two-fold calibration.
in the latest DRS4 datasheet I only saw your data of the DRS4 PLL locking time for 6GSPS sampling speed, with other rows "TBD". Have you tried those lower frequencies? According to the datasheet I think the PLLLCK should be stabily low when the PLL is locked; am I right? However when I try my design with the DRS4 chip and feed the reference clock signal at 0.5MHz or 2MHz, the PLLLCK I get can never stabilize. There could be some problem in the PCB circuit connection, but I want to confirm with you since I'm confused with those "TBD" blanks.
Thanks a lot!
The locking time is typically 20-30 cycles of the external reference clock, I will update the numbers in the datasheet soon. I attached a screenshot of the chip when starting up at 1 GHz (0.5 MHz REFCLK), so you can see the behaviour. The upper curver is the DTAP signal, the lower curve the PLLLCK signal. As you can see, the PLLLCK signal is not purely digital. Actually it's a simple XOR between the REFCLK and the DTAP signal, so you need an external 4.7nF capacitor to "integrate" this signal. Without this capacitor, you would see small negative spikes whenever there is s small phase shift between the DTAP and the REFCLK signal. Have a look at your DTAP signal, is it in phase with the REFCLK?
Thanks! I see. The capacitor is important. However I'm a little confused... If PLLLCK=DTAP XOR REFCLK, shouldn't it integrate to low instead of high when the two clocks are in phase? I must have some misunderstanding here. So if we ignore any realistic complexity and assume DTAP is perfectly locked with REFCLK, will PLLLCK be always low or high? I'm sorry I do not know how the DRS internal PLL and its input/output work...
may I draw your attention to the upcoming Real Time Conference 2010, taking place in Lisbon, Portugal, May 23rd to May 28th, 2010.
Several groups which are developing DRS4 electronics will come to this conference and present their work, so it will be a good opportunity to exchange ideas and experiences. There will also be a short course on digital pulse shape processing, which is highly relevant for our field.
Looking forward to see you in Lisbon,