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ID Date Author Subject
  72   Mon May 3 17:10:29 2010 Stefan RittDRS4 chip model

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera wrote:

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera wrote:

Hi all,

i'm an electronics engineering student at UCM (Madrid) working on my master's thesis within the CTA collaboration. I'm designing the readout electronics for the telescope's camera, and i'm focusing in using GAPDs instead of PMTs and using the domino chip for the sampling of the signal. I was wondering if there is a spice and/or RF model of the DRS4 chip available. It would be very useful to perform some simulations before deciding to use the chip as the sampling solution for our prototypes.

If the answer is negative, can you give me some advise for modelling the chip in spice? Have you done any simulations?

Thanks in advance,

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera.

Yes there is a transistor-level spice model, which I used to design the chip, but you won't be happy with it: Given the 500,000+ transistors on the chip, a 100 ns simulation takes a couple of weeks. We tried to make a simplified model just for the analog input using some measured S-parameters, but found that the RF behavior of the chip is almost impossible to describe to better than let's say 50%. In the end you have to fine-tune your analog front-end experimentally, to obtain optimal bandwidth. We are just working on a reference design with gives you 850 MHz bandwidth using an active input buffer.

 Thanks for the information.

I would like to try the huge :-) model. Can you send it to my email address? Since the input signal are pulses of a few nanoseconds at FHWM, the simulation time may be reduced. I will post some feedback in the forum once i give it a try.

Kind regards.

I just checked and realized that we are not allowed to give out the "huge" model since it contains parameters from the chip manufacturer's library which are confidentially. 

  71   Mon May 3 17:06:02 2010 Ignacio Diéguez EstremeraDRS4 chip model

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera wrote:

Hi all,

i'm an electronics engineering student at UCM (Madrid) working on my master's thesis within the CTA collaboration. I'm designing the readout electronics for the telescope's camera, and i'm focusing in using GAPDs instead of PMTs and using the domino chip for the sampling of the signal. I was wondering if there is a spice and/or RF model of the DRS4 chip available. It would be very useful to perform some simulations before deciding to use the chip as the sampling solution for our prototypes.

If the answer is negative, can you give me some advise for modelling the chip in spice? Have you done any simulations?

Thanks in advance,

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera.

Yes there is a transistor-level spice model, which I used to design the chip, but you won't be happy with it: Given the 500,000+ transistors on the chip, a 100 ns simulation takes a couple of weeks. We tried to make a simplified model just for the analog input using some measured S-parameters, but found that the RF behavior of the chip is almost impossible to describe to better than let's say 50%. In the end you have to fine-tune your analog front-end experimentally, to obtain optimal bandwidth. We are just working on a reference design with gives you 850 MHz bandwidth using an active input buffer.

 Thanks for the information.

I would like to try the huge :-) model. Can you send it to my email address? Since the input signal are pulses of a few nanoseconds at FHWM, the simulation time may be reduced. I will post some feedback in the forum once i give it a try.

Kind regards.

  70   Mon May 3 11:09:12 2010 Stefan RittDRS4 chip model

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera wrote:

Hi all,

i'm an electronics engineering student at UCM (Madrid) working on my master's thesis within the CTA collaboration. I'm designing the readout electronics for the telescope's camera, and i'm focusing in using GAPDs instead of PMTs and using the domino chip for the sampling of the signal. I was wondering if there is a spice and/or RF model of the DRS4 chip available. It would be very useful to perform some simulations before deciding to use the chip as the sampling solution for our prototypes.

If the answer is negative, can you give me some advise for modelling the chip in spice? Have you done any simulations?

Thanks in advance,

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera.

Yes there is a transistor-level spice model, which I used to design the chip, but you won't be happy with it: Given the 500,000+ transistors on the chip, a 100 ns simulation takes a couple of weeks. We tried to make a simplified model just for the analog input using some measured S-parameters, but found that the RF behavior of the chip is almost impossible to describe to better than let's say 50%. In the end you have to fine-tune your analog front-end experimentally, to obtain optimal bandwidth. We are just working on a reference design with gives you 850 MHz bandwidth using an active input buffer.

  69   Sun May 2 18:36:14 2010 Ignacio Diéguez EstremeraDRS4 chip model

Hi all,

i'm an electronics engineering student at UCM (Madrid) working on my master's thesis within the CTA collaboration. I'm designing the readout electronics for the telescope's camera, and i'm focusing in using GAPDs instead of PMTs and using the domino chip for the sampling of the signal. I was wondering if there is a spice and/or RF model of the DRS4 chip available. It would be very useful to perform some simulations before deciding to use the chip as the sampling solution for our prototypes.

If the answer is negative, can you give me some advise for modelling the chip in spice? Have you done any simulations?

Thanks in advance,

Ignacio Diéguez Estremera.

  68   Thu Apr 15 13:48:40 2010 Stefan RittROFS Configuration

Hao Huan wrote:

Hi Stefan,

    according to the DRS4 datasheet, if we want an input range centered around U0, the ROFS should be 1.55V-U0. However when I read the codes of the evaluation board application, ROFS seems to be 1.6V-1.25*U0 where the coefficient 1.25 is said to come from sampling cell charge injection correction. Is it the right equation to use? What exactly does that charge injection correction mean?

    Thanks a lot.

 

1.55V-U0 is the theoretical values, but there are certain "dirt" effects like chip-to-chip variation and charge injection. The difference between various chips is easily 20-30mV, so there is not a single "correct" value. The formula 1.6V-1.25*U0 I developed for a special evaluation board, where it kind of worked better than the theoretical value, but I never made systematic studies. One should average over several chips and use some solid average there. Best is if you try both formulas and check what give you the better linearity.

  67   Wed Apr 14 16:34:28 2010 Stefan Rittversion 1.2 evaluation board with firmware 13279?

Heejong Kim wrote:
Hi, Stefan,

I found that my collaborator bought 2 older version of evaluation board before.
They are the version 1.2 in plastics case with firmware 13191.

Can I upgrade the firmware from 13191 to 13279?
I'm wondering if the older version of evaluation board is working with firmware 13279.

Thanks,
Heejong

I checked and there is no significant difference between the two revisions, so I would just leave it. 

  66   Tue Apr 13 14:15:16 2010 Stefan RittSimple example application to read a DRS evaluation board

Heejong Kim wrote:

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Several people asked for s simple application to guide them in writing their own application to read out a DRS board. Such an application has been added in software revions 2.1.1 and is attached to this message. This example program drs_exam.cpp written in C++ does the following necessary steps to access a DRS board:

  • Crate a "DRS" object and scan all USB devices
  • Display found DRS boards
  • Initialize the first found board and set the sampling frequency to 5 GSPS
  • Enable internal trigger on channel #1 with 250 mV threshold
  • Start acquisition and wait for a trigger
  • Read two waveforms (both time and amplitude)
  • Repeat this 10 times

I know that we are still missing a good documentation for the DRS API, but I have not yet found the time to do that. I hope the example program is enough for most people to start writing own programs. For Windows users (MS Visual C++ 8.0) there is a drs.sln project file, and for linux users there is a Makefile which can be used to compile this example program.

 

 Hi, Stefan,

drs_exam.cpp is working good to read-out one board.

Now I would like to read-out two boards at the same time using the same trigger( external or internal).

I'm trying to understand and modify the original code for control two board.

Meantime, it would be very appreciated if you give any tips for this.

Thanks,

Heejong

The evaluation boards are not really made for multi-board applications. What you have to do is to maintain an external trigger which synchronizes the boards. So you need:

- two boards connected to two USB ports

- an external flip-flop connected to the two trigger inputs of both boards

If a trigger is sent to the flip-flop, it sends a trigger to both evaluation boards. You poll on one of the boards to see if it has triggered (vis IsBusy()), then you read out both boards. Now you have to reset the external flip-flop somehow from the computer. If you have a CAMAC I/O board or some other means of sending a logical signal to it, that could do the job. From the software point, you get a "DRS" object upon initialization, which contains then two "DRSBoard" objects, over which you can iterate. Look at the "drscl" program from the distribution on how to do that.

  65   Tue Apr 13 13:56:07 2010 Stefan RittBaseline Variation In Data

Hao Huan wrote:

Hi Stefan,

    when I sample a constant input with the DRS 4 chip, there was a baseline variation showing up as a saw-tooth pattern which grows with the absolute value of the differential input. Do you think this is the kind of baseline variation mentioned in the evaluation board manual, i.e. coming from clock jitter in ADC sampling?

    Thanks a lot!

 

Please post an oscilloscope screenshot here and I can tell you. 

  64   Tue Apr 13 13:12:43 2010 Stefan Rittevaluation board used like a counter

lorenzo neri wrote:

Hi all

it is possible to use the evaluation board like a counter?

I'm interested in the arriving time of all self trigger event in to a channel.

the input signal are 2V TTL of 10 ns at 50ohm, and the time acquisition window is 1 second.

The evaluation board is as good or bad as an digital oscilloscope to work like a counter. At 1 GSPS, you have a window of one microsecond, which is certainly too short for your application. 

  63   Tue Apr 13 10:45:18 2010 lorenzo nerievaluation board used like a counter

Hi all



it is possible to use the evaluation board like a counter?



I'm interested in the arriving time of all self trigger event in to a channel.



the input signal are 2V TTL of 10 ns at 50ohm, and the time acquisition window is 1 second.




can someone help me?



thanks in advance,



Lorenzo

  62   Fri Apr 9 17:14:45 2010 Hao HuanBaseline Variation In Data

Hi Stefan,

    when I sample a constant input with the DRS 4 chip, there was a baseline variation showing up as a saw-tooth pattern which grows with the absolute value of the differential input. Do you think this is the kind of baseline variation mentioned in the evaluation board manual, i.e. coming from clock jitter in ADC sampling?

    Thanks a lot!

 

  61   Mon Apr 5 17:57:41 2010 Heejong KimSimple example application to read a DRS evaluation board

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Several people asked for s simple application to guide them in writing their own application to read out a DRS board. Such an application has been added in software revions 2.1.1 and is attached to this message. This example program drs_exam.cpp written in C++ does the following necessary steps to access a DRS board:

  • Crate a "DRS" object and scan all USB devices
  • Display found DRS boards
  • Initialize the first found board and set the sampling frequency to 5 GSPS
  • Enable internal trigger on channel #1 with 250 mV threshold
  • Start acquisition and wait for a trigger
  • Read two waveforms (both time and amplitude)
  • Repeat this 10 times

I know that we are still missing a good documentation for the DRS API, but I have not yet found the time to do that. I hope the example program is enough for most people to start writing own programs. For Windows users (MS Visual C++ 8.0) there is a drs.sln project file, and for linux users there is a Makefile which can be used to compile this example program.

 

 Hi, Stefan,

drs_exam.cpp is working good to read-out one board.

Now I would like to read-out two boards at the same time using the same trigger( external or internal).

I'm trying to understand and modify the original code for control two board.

Meantime, it would be very appreciated if you give any tips for this.

Thanks,

Heejong

  60   Mon Apr 5 17:50:39 2010 Heejong Kimversion 1.2 evaluation board with firmware 13279?
Hi, Stefan,

I found that my collaborator bought 2 older version of evaluation board before.
They are the version 1.2 in plastics case with firmware 13191.

Can I upgrade the firmware from 13191 to 13279?
I'm wondering if the older version of evaluation board is working with firmware 13279.

Thanks,
Heejong

  59   Tue Mar 30 22:57:34 2010 Hao HuanROFS Configuration

Hi Stefan,

    according to the DRS4 datasheet, if we want an input range centered around U0, the ROFS should be 1.55V-U0. However when I read the codes of the evaluation board application, ROFS seems to be 1.6V-1.25*U0 where the coefficient 1.25 is said to come from sampling cell charge injection correction. Is it the right equation to use? What exactly does that charge injection correction mean?

    Thanks a lot.

 

  58   Mon Mar 22 09:12:19 2010 Stefan RittPLL Loop Filter Configuration

Hao Huan wrote:

in the datasheet it says at 6GSPS the typical loop filter parameters are 220Ω, 2.2nF and 27nF. If I want to run the Domino wave nominally at 1GHz, i.e. with a reference clock frequency around 0.5MHz, is there any recommended loop filter configuration? Is the setup of the evaluation board, that is, 220Ω, 3.3nF and 33nF an optimal choice?

The setup of the evaluation board is a good compromise which runs between 1 GHz and 5 GHz. Unfortunately I never found the time to investigate this in more detail. So if someone is willing to measure settling time and phase jitter with various combinations of R, C1 and C2, I'm more than happy to include this into the datasheet. 

  57   Sun Mar 21 02:03:44 2010 Hao HuanPLL Loop Filter Configuration

Hi Stefan,

    in the datasheet it says at 6GSPS the typical loop filter parameters are 220Ω, 2.2nF and 27nF. If I want to run the Domino wave nominally at 1GHz, i.e. with a reference clock frequency around 0.5MHz, is there any recommended loop filter configuration? Is the setup of the evaluation board, that is, 220Ω, 3.3nF and 33nF an optimal choice?

    Thank you very much.

 

  56   Thu Mar 18 22:10:41 2010 Stefan RittSerial Interface Frequency of the DRS Chip

Hao Huan wrote:

 

 Thanks! The suggested algorithm looks promising. However, if the spikes take place only for those specific cells, is it possible to absorb them into the offset calibration?

No, since they are not constant. The bus segments charge up between readouts with a time constant of about 0.5s. So if you do the readout with 1Hz event rate and with 100Hz event rate, the peaks will differ by a factor up to 10, so a constant offset correction cannot take care of that.

  55   Thu Mar 18 21:38:10 2010 Hao HuanSerial Interface Frequency of the DRS Chip

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Hao Huan wrote:

in the DRS4 datasheet I read that the optimal frequency for SRCLK is 33MHz. However in the evaluation board firmware SRCLK is toggled at rising edges of the internal 33MHz clock, i.e. the frequency of SRCLK itself is 16.5MHz instead. Is that frequency better than 33MHz?

The reason for the 16.5 MHz is the following:

After each block of 32 bins, the DRS4 chip switches an internal segment, which causes some small spike at the analog output of the chip. This spike is a bit wider than 30ns, so if everything is digitized with 33 MHz, then you see small spiked each 32 cells. The appropriate solution would be to modify the firmware to digitize all cells with 30ns (33 MHz) and all cells with the spike with ~50 ns (20 MHz). If you do the ROI readout mode, you don't know for the first 10 cells if one of them belong to this class, since the cell address takes 10 cycles to be read out. So you would first have to read 10 cells, and then if you realize that one of them is one of the problematic ones (cell number modulo 32 is zero), you have to re-read the first 10 cells, and digitize the problematic cell with a longer settling time. Now this is a bit complicated to implement in the firmware, so I was just too lazy to do it and decided to digitize everything with 16.5 MHz. But if you are worried about the dead time, you should consider implementing the mentioned algorithm. 

 Thanks! The suggested algorithm looks promising. However, if the spikes take place only for those specific cells, is it possible to absorb them into the offset calibration?

  54   Fri Mar 12 08:04:44 2010 Stefan RittInput Bandwidth of the DRS Chip

Hao Huan wrote:

I read in the DRS datasheet that the input bandwidth if 950MHz. However, it also says the output bandwidth in the transparent mode is 50MHz. Since in the transparent mode the input is routed to the output, does it mean the input bandwidth also gets reduced in the transparent mode? I don't know how the transparent mode works inside the chip of course, but this value would be important since if the hardware discriminators are connected to the output of DRS, we have to always work in the transparent mode.

In transparent mode, the input signal also gets routed to the output, where it goes through an output buffer, which limits the bandwidth to about 50 MHz, but only for the output. The effective bandwidth to the sampling cells is not changed. Please note however that the 950 MHz are for the "chip only". We measured this by keeping the input amplitude from a function generator constant at the input pin of the chip (measured with a high speed oscilloscope). Since each signal source has a non-zero impedance, the signal tends to "shrink" at high bandwidth, and we had to adjust the level of the function generator to keep the amplitude constant at high frequencies. If you do a realistic input stage with the THS4508 for example, the achievable bandwidth will be around 800 MHz.

  53   Thu Mar 11 21:37:32 2010 Hao HuanInput Bandwidth of the DRS Chip

Hi Stefan,

    I read in the DRS datasheet that the input bandwidth if 950MHz. However, it also says the output bandwidth in the transparent mode is 50MHz. Since in the transparent mode the input is routed to the output, does it mean the input bandwidth also gets reduced in the transparent mode? I don't know how the transparent mode works inside the chip of course, but this value would be important since if the hardware discriminators are connected to the output of DRS, we have to always work in the transparent mode.

    Thanks!

 

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