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ID Date Authorup Subject
  838   Thu Oct 14 15:25:07 2021 Stefan Rittlivetime (or deadtime) of DRS4 evaluation board

The one thing you can do easily is to look at the scaler values. If one channel counts all physical events, and you have all read out events, then the ratio give you the live/deadtime. The hardware scalers also keep running during the DRS readout.

Stefan

Keita Mizukoshi wrote:

Dear experts,

 

I would like to use the DRS4 evaluation board for actual physics experiment.

I made a CUI script based on the drs_exam, https://github.com/mzks/drs4_tools/blob/main/build/source/drscmd.cpp.

In this framework, how can we obtain DAQ livetime (or deadtime)?

Has some function already provided to evaluate them from firmware?

 

Best regards,

Keita

 

  840   Thu Oct 14 18:42:31 2021 Stefan Rittlivetime (or deadtime) of DRS4 evaluation board

I would say not exactly, but it's a good approximation.

Keita Mizukoshi wrote:

Thank you very much for your response.
Excuse me for my very stupid confirmation.
If I take N events finally and the hardware scaler value is M, the livetime is realtime*(N/M). Is this correct

  844   Tue Oct 26 12:00:51 2021 Stefan RittExternal trigger and drs_exam

1. Why should your waveform start from 0 to 5ns? I don't get your point. Whenever you trigger a readout, you get a 200ns wide time window, and by definition it starts at zero.

2. In the software distribution you have a drs_exam_2048.cpp program. Note that your board needs to be physically modified before delivery to switch to 2048 bins.

Best,
Stefan

Mehrpad Monajem wrote:

Hi Stefan,


I have two problems regarding using the drs_exam file with external trigger:


1- I connected a 200Khz signal with 20ns rising edge, 50 ohm load, and 27% duty cycle as an external trigger. The output of the drs_exam file starts from 0 to 200ns. Since I use an external trigger, I think it should be starting from 0 to 5ns and then again starting from 0. Could you please tell me where the problem is?

2- How is it possible to change from 1024 to 2048 bins in the drs_exam example?

 

You can find my code in the attachment.

Best regards,
Mehrpad

 

  845   Tue Oct 26 12:02:56 2021 Stefan RittTrigger multiple boards independently

Unfortunately an independent operation from a single computer is not supported by the software. You can try to modify the drs_exam program and extend it. You can poll all boards in sequence and just read out that one which got a trigger, then start the loop again. But I don't know how good you are in programming. I needs a bit of experience to do that.

Stefan

Javier Caravaca wrote:

Hello,

I recently acquired 4 DRS4 boards and I wanted to ask if it was possible to trigger them independently from the same computer.

I know that you can daisy-chain boards and trigger them all at the same time, but in my case, each of my boards record independent events, so I want them to trigger when trigger conditions are met in each board. I currently use the provided DRSOSC software, that can trigger on only the board that is being displayed at that moment. I tried opening several instances of DRSOSC to associate each to each board, but that is not possible since the second instance already does not find the boards. I wonder if there is a way of triggering from each board independently without having to use four computers.

Thank you,

Javier.

 

  848   Wed Oct 27 08:11:42 2021 Stefan RittTrigger multiple boards independently

I'm not sure if the rate would go up to 2 kHz (not 2 GHz!). Depends how the USB hub is designed. What you can do however is to buy 4 RaspberryPis (total cost 150$) and run everythign in parallel. The evaluation boards works nicely with the Pi's.

Javier Caravaca wrote:

A related question is: if the 4 boards are triggering at max rate (500Hz), would the total data throughtput (of the four boards together) be 2GHz (500Hz x 4)? Or is the limitation on the readout, rather than the triggering?

  852   Tue Nov 16 08:51:14 2021 Stefan RittV3 board, only one channel works, all components at each channel input working

A V3 boards is already 10 years old and out of warranty. The software has no configuration to turn channels off except the channel buttons on the main page on top of the sliders. I presume the channels are broked due to some overvoltage applied to them (the V5 board is better protected against over voltage). You can send it the board for repair, but it will cost almost the same amount of money than buying a new boards.

Regards,
Stefan

Jacquelynne Vaughan wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm still looking through the forum for an answer to this question, but thought I'd go ahead and post anyway just in case it hasn't been answered yet. If it has I can take this post down.

I have a V3 board, and as far as I can tell only channel 2 gives an output. If I enable other channels using the DRS Oscilloscope software, they do show static but will not show a signal if I connect one to them (e.g. a series of subsequent square waves). A technician and I took the board out and tested all the components leading up to the microcontrollers for each channel, and everything seemed to be working fine. I thought maybe it was configured to only have one channel read an output, but I looked through the Config panel in the software and nothing seemed to indicate that.

I am a novice, and maybe I'm missing something that I didn't see in the manual. I can post screenshots if needed!

Thank you for your help!

 

  855   Mon Jan 3 17:13:41 2022 Stefan RittDRS4 request assistance

1. fDOMINO is defined as fREFCLK * 2048

2. Good values can be derived from the evaluation board schematics: C1=4.7nF, C2=1nF, R=130 Ohm

3. A "1" means a logical high level. See Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level

Lynsey wrote:

Dear Sir or Madam,

      Good morning,I am using drs4 chip, and the measured fDTAP == 1/350ns, that is, fDOMINO == 1 / 350ns * 2048 == 5.8GHz.

     I have three questions:

                              1. Is fDOMINO determined by the chip itself?

                              2. C1, C2 and R2 are TBD. I don't know how many to choose. Is there an algorithm?

                              3."Configure Write Shift Register to contain all 1's",What, pray, is the meaning of “1's"?

                                                                                                                                                          Truely yours.

 

 

  857   Sat Jan 15 10:50:47 2022 Stefan RittI want to know about the readout
student_riku wrote:

Am I right in thinking that inputting 1 to DMODE (Bit0) in the configuration register will connect the 1024th cell to the 1st cell?

Yes, as desceribed in the manual .

student_riku wrote:

Also, let's assume that after sampling 1024 cells on channel 0, 200 cells are sampled in the second week.
Does the readout of 1024 cells start from cell 0?
Or does it start from the 200th cell?

I don't understand what you mean by "second week". 

Normally, you run the chip continously (DMODE=1) until you receive a trigger. Then, you typically read out the chip from the stop position by using a RSRLOAD pulse (as described unter "REGION-OF-INTEREST READOUT MODE".

Stefan

  859   Tue Jan 25 14:34:42 2022 Stefan RittRegarding measuring for a set time

drsosc is a graphical application contiously acquiring data from the board, and drscl is a command line tool for debugging, as written in the manual.

The drsosc application runs indefinitely, but I guess you refer to saving data (by hitting the "Save" button in the drsosc application). Yes the save functionality has a number of events, since you cannot store data indefinitely, since your harddisk does not have indefinite space!

I kind of sense that you want to convert the "number of event to save" into "number of seconds or hours to save". This is not build into the drsosc application. It's all open source, so feel free to change the code. Alternatively, you can use the drs_exam.cpp program coming with the distribution, wich is a simpel C++ program reading the board. It has a for loop over 10 events, but you can change the code easily to run for a predetermined amount of time.

Stefan

Thomas M. wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that drsosc and drscl are functionally equivalent regarding collecting data? We want to run the DRS4-EB for a predefined amount of time. However, the DRS4 scope application seems only to run for a predefined set of measurements. Have I got that right? Is there some reason to avoid running the DRS4-EB for a predefined amount of time that I should be aware of?

  864   Tue Feb 15 12:02:29 2022 Stefan RittCannot trigger on pulses, have to trigger on undershoot

The trigger comparator is a ADCMP601 unit which requires a minimum pulse width of 3-4 ns. I see that your pulses are only 1-2 ns wide. You have to make your pulses wider in order to trigger on them.

Stefan

  868   Thu Mar 3 13:47:26 2022 Stefan RittHow to convert samples to volt?

The 'drscl' tool is more for experts, normal users are advised to use the DRSOsc oscilloscope.

The board has to be calibrated for a given sampling speed before calibrated data can be read out. Do that with the "calib" command, specifying 5 for the sampling rate, 0 for the range (which is the middle between -0.5 and +0.5) and 1 for 1024 mode. If you then do "start", "stop", "read 0 1" you get calibrated data in mV.

Stefan

Matias Senger wrote:

I am using the `drscl` app. My prior experience is practically zero, sorry if this is a very naive question. When I read using `read 0 1` (channel 0, with calibration) I get this:

```
Calibration not valid for board #2946
  10    3    7    4   10    8   14    5    5    9    3    4    9    8    9    4
   3    3   12    5    5   13    3    8    1    5    0    4    8    6    6    3
...etc...
```

Why does it says that the calibration is not valid? How am I supposed to go from integers to volts?

If I run the `info` command I get this:

```
==============================
Mezz. Board index:    0
DRS type:             DRS4
Board type:           9
Serial number:        2946
Firmware revision:    30000
Temperature:          43.4 C
Input range:          -0.5V...0.5V
Calibrated range:     -0.5V...0.5V
Calibrated frequency: 0.000 GHz
Status reg.:          0000009A
Control reg.:         00000000
  DMODE circular
Trigger bus:          00000000
Frequency:            1.007 GHz
```

 

  869   Thu Mar 3 16:14:16 2022 Stefan RittScaler issue to evaluate live time

The scalers are read out 10x per seconds, so they have an accuracy of 10 Hz. I tried a 50 Hz pulser, and measured 40 Hz, I tried 52 Hz and measured 50 Hz. This is about what you can expect.

The scaler rate is measured after the discriminator of the trigger, so the trigger level also affects the scaler reading. If you have a 100 mV pulse and your threshold is 200 mV, your scaler rate drops to zero. That can be seen best with the DRSOsc and sliding the trigger value. If you have a 50 Hz pulse with narrow (< us) pulses, things are fine. But if you use a 50 Hz square wave, then you get distorted signals due to the AC coupling which can also be confusing. See for example here: https://www.daqarta.com/dw_gg0o.htm

Keita Mizukoshi wrote:

Hi. I'm trying to evaluate livetime of the evaluation board with the hardware scaler. I'm facing a strange issue.

I took the rate with the function, DRS->GetScaler(int channel).
I guess that channels 0--3 mean the rate for the channel, and channel 4 means the counter of the trigger.
I took the 1,000 pulses generated by a pulse generator with 50 Hz.
The scaler values are ~ 39.83, not 50.
The timestamp difference between the initial event and the final event is 19.98 seconds.
1000/19.98 ~ 50, thus, the evaluation board took the pulses with enough livetime.

Can we believe the scaler value for the livetime evaluation?

 

  872   Mon Mar 7 08:45:32 2022 Stefan RittWhy does not trigger at higher sampling frequencies?

Unfortunately I have not idea what the problem could be. In principle the trigger should be independent of the sampling speed, since the trigger is only made with a discriminator and a flip-flop. The hardware must be ok since you see the trigger with the oscillocope app. All you can do is to go through the sorce code of the oscilloscope app, especially drsosc/Osic.cpp::ScanBoards(), SetTriggerLevel(), SetTriggerPolariy() etc. to make sure you do the same calls as the oscilloscope app.

Stefan

  874   Mon Mar 7 16:37:54 2022 Stefan RittScaler issue to evaluate live time

I tried your measurement with the DRSOscilloscope app (see below), and I measure a constant difference of 10 Hz among the whole range of 100 Hz to 3 kHz.

So I don't know what's wrong on your side. Did you try with the oscilloscope app as well? Have you checked your pulse generator? The evaluation board time reference is a quartz with an accuracy of 10^-5, so no way one can get there a difference you see.

Stefan

Keita Mizukoshi wrote:

Thank you very much for your explanation.

 

I would like to show you a pulse example ('black line is the threshold).

Still, pulse generator rate and DRS4 rate are a bit different more than 10 Hz.

 

Stefan Ritt wrote:

The scalers are read out 10x per seconds, so they have an accuracy of 10 Hz. I tried a 50 Hz pulser, and measured 40 Hz, I tried 52 Hz and measured 50 Hz. This is about what you can expect.

The scaler rate is measured after the discriminator of the trigger, so the trigger level also affects the scaler reading. If you have a 100 mV pulse and your threshold is 200 mV, your scaler rate drops to zero. That can be seen best with the DRSOsc and sliding the trigger value. If you have a 50 Hz pulse with narrow (< us) pulses, things are fine. But if you use a 50 Hz square wave, then you get distorted signals due to the AC coupling which can also be confusing. See for example here: https://www.daqarta.com/dw_gg0o.htm

Keita Mizukoshi wrote:

Hi. I'm trying to evaluate livetime of the evaluation board with the hardware scaler. I'm facing a strange issue.

I took the rate with the function, DRS->GetScaler(int channel).
I guess that channels 0--3 mean the rate for the channel, and channel 4 means the counter of the trigger.
I took the 1,000 pulses generated by a pulse generator with 50 Hz.
The scaler values are ~ 39.83, not 50.
The timestamp difference between the initial event and the final event is 19.98 seconds.
1000/19.98 ~ 50, thus, the evaluation board took the pulses with enough livetime.

Can we believe the scaler value for the livetime evaluation?

 

 

 

  878   Sat Mar 12 10:13:24 2022 Stefan RittTime calibration and the C++ API

DRSBoard::GetTime is declared in DRS.h line 720.

If you want to measure timing down to ps, you need some basic knowledge, especially about signal-to-noise and risetime. This cannot be taught in a few sentenses, needs a full lecture. As a starting point please read that papat:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1405.4975

then you will understand why you measure different resolutions with different peak heights (and different rise times).

Concerning the DRS4 measurement, please be aware that the sampling poings are not equidistant, like not every 200ps for GSPS. They vary bin by bin significantly, from 50ps to 300ps. So you alway have to analyse the X/Y points as an array, not just the Y values assuming deltaX of 200ps. Probably you forgot that. Then, you have to interpolate between bins to find the crossing over your threshold. Linear interpolation is already good, spline interpolation even better. Deep inside Measurement.cpp of the drsosc program you find in the source code:

t1 = (thr*(x1[i]-x1[i-1])+x1[i-1]*y1[i]-x1[i]*y1[i-1])/(y1[i]-y1[i-1]);

which is the linear interpolation (thr is the threshold). You have to use (and understand!) similar code.

Best,
Stefan

 

 

 

Matias Senger wrote:

I am using the V5 board at a fixed sampling frequency. With the `drsosc` app I have executed the time calibration at 5 GS/s (actually 5.12 GS/s). This is how my setup looks like in the app:

Now I want to replicate this using the C++ API (not the positive width measurement shown, the signal sampling only). I am seting the sampling frequency to 5 GS/s, as I do in the `drsosc` app. Then I get the time information using the `DRSBoard::GetTime(unsigned int chipIndex, int channelIndex, int tc, float *time)` function (which I don't find defined either in `DRS.h` or `DRS.cpp` but somehow it works). How can I know if these times that I get here are being corrected with the time calibration? If so, should I expect the time resolution to be < 3 ps? Are these 3 ps accumulative, such that in the end I end up having a contribution from the evaluation board of 3 ps × 5 Gs/s × 100 ns where 100 ns is the time difference between my two pulses? (This does not seem to be the case because if so I would expect the jitter to be ~ 1 ns, and we see that the "Pos Width" measurement is ~ 0.1 ns std.)

Why am I asking? I want to measure the jitter between the two falling edges. This cannot be done easily with the `drsosc` app I think, so I am acquiring the data and doing this offline. I have done this measurement in the past using a LeCroy WaveRunner oscilloscope with 20 GS/s and 4 GHz bandwidth (offline, same code) and I have seen it vary from ~5 ps → 30 ps when I vary a voltage that I can control. Now if I calculate this time fluctuation using the data acquired with the V5 evaluation board I get a value ~100 ps and independent of this voltage, which leads me to conclude that the limiting factor is being the evaluation board itself. So now I am wondering if I have reached its limit, or if there is some setting that can still improve this result.

Thanks!

 

  880   Mon Mar 14 08:59:51 2022 Stefan RittTime calibration and the C++ API

Looks like you have the some time calibration, not sure if it's the correct one. Sample the sine wave from the calibration clock, once with and once without the timing calibration, then you will see if all points lie on a smooth line. Left: without timing calibration, right: with proper timing calibration:

 

If your points do not lie on a smooth line, you might habe a problem such as the wrong channel for calibration, an offset of 1 in the index of the time array or some other software bug. Measure the same signal with the DRSOsc application and then your code. If the results differ, you have a software problem on your side.

Stefan

 

  883   Tue Apr 12 10:49:27 2022 Stefan Ritt 

A3-A0 = 1001 should be all you need to activate OUT0-OUT7. It works in our designs. Maybe double check the address lines with an oscilloscope.

Stefan

LynseyShun wrote:

Hello, I am Lynsey. now I set A3-A0 to 1001 in ROI mode, but only OUT0 has output, and the other seven channels(OUT1-OUT7) do not output corresponding waveforms.

In ROI mode, can OUT0-OUT7 output sampled waveforms at the same time?

thank you very much

 

  298   Mon Oct 21 14:43:21 2013 Stephane DebieuxDRS4 analog outputs - interfacing DRS4 to AD9222 ADC

Hi,

I wish to interface the DRS4 with the 8-channel ADC AD9222 (or AD9637).

I'm reading from the DRS4 datasheet that "the analog output of the DRS4 chip has been designed to match directly the input of the AD9222". OUT+ output of DRS4 is in the range from 0.8V to 1.8V and OUT- output is shifted by the voltage applied to the O-OFS pin.

The span of the AD9222 ADC core is defined by REFT and REFB which are resp. 1.4V and 0.4V in a typical case (AVDD=1.8V, VREF=1V). My understanding is that the ADC analog inputs must be within the voltage range defined by REFT and REFB and so I don't quite see how this matches the DRS4 outputs.

Can we use the full-scale range indeed? Do we have to use AC-coupling with mid-supply bias? What is the point I missed?

Thank you for your help.

 

  377   Tue Oct 7 14:09:02 2014 Stephane DebieuxUSB Microcontroller firmware

Hi,

I'm trying to recompile the USB microcontroller firmware starting from the drs_eval.c file but I'm not able to get a .iic file close to the one provided with the eval board. It seems to me that this drs_eval.iic file does not match the drs_eval.c and drs_eval.hex files or that I'm doing something wrong. Could you please help or give me an explanation.

Thank you.

Stephane

 

  379   Mon Oct 13 17:08:40 2014 Stephane DebieuxUSB Microcontroller firmware

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Stephane Debieux wrote:

Hi,

I'm trying to recompile the USB microcontroller firmware starting from the drs_eval.c file but I'm not able to get a .iic file close to the one provided with the eval board. It seems to me that this drs_eval.iic file does not match the drs_eval.c and drs_eval.hex files or that I'm doing something wrong. Could you please help or give me an explanation.

Thank you.

Stephane

 

I did not touch the firmware since a couple of years, but I can confirm that the drs_eval.iic is the correct firmware file, since we use this one on all of our boards. To program it, you need the Cypress USB Console. You remove the jumper (to detach the EEPROM), then power the board (which then boots from the internal memory), connect to the board via the Cypress console, the put back the jumper while the board is running, then program the file into the EEPROM.

Best,
Stefan 

 Thank you Stefan.

Would that be possible to get the corresponding drs_eval.c source file since I'm assuming the one provided with the eval board is not the right one?

Thank you.

Stephane

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