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  814   Fri Feb 26 20:32:25 2021 Stefan RittTrouble getting PLL to lock

Can you post a scope trace of your refclk together with DTAP, DSPEED and DENABLE?

Tom Schneider wrote:

Stefan,

Thanks for responding so quickly.  Yes I have my clock source going to REFCLK+ (CLKIN is the signal name on my schematic).  BIAS is 0.7V exactly, /RESET is high, A0-A3 are 0x0000, and the loop filter has a 4.7nF cap to GND with a 130ohm resistor + 1uF cap in parallel, just like the eval board.

Regarding the clock - I am not using an LVDS clock, but rather a 2.5V-level clock signal, with REFCLK- tied to 1.25V.  Sheet 9 of the datasheet states:  If no LVDS reference clock signal is available, a CMOS signal can be connected to REFCLK+ and the REFCLK input is connected to VDD/2 via a resistor divider.

Is that not a true statement?

-Tom
 

Stefan Ritt wrote:

I guess you mean "1 MHz clock at REFCLK+", and not CLKIN, there is no CLKIN, just a SRCLK, but that is someting else!

There could be many reasons why this is not working. It's hard for me to debug your board without actually having it in hands. So just some ideas:

- Supply a clean differential REFCLK, I never tried one end tied to VDD/2

- Is /RESET high?

- Is BIAS at roughly 0.7V?

- Is A0-A3 different from 1111, which puts the chip in standby

- Did you double check your loop filter?

The easiest usually is to start from a running evaluation board, then compare all pins 1:1 with your board.

Stefan

Tom Schneider wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a custom PCB design with the DRS4 chip, and I can't get the PLL to lock.  I'm feeding CLKIN with a 1MHz CMOS clock (REFCLK- tied to VDD/2), and I'm using the same loop filter as the eval board.  I see from the datasheet that the PLL is enabled by default, so I'm not writing anything to the config register on startup.  I am just driving DENABLE high approx. 100ms after startup and looking for the PLL lock bit to go high.  When I look at DTAP, I see a 3MHz signal.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

-Tom

 

 

 

  815   Fri Feb 26 21:24:39 2021 Tom SchneiderTrouble getting PLL to lock

Probe capacitance makes that tricky - if I put my probe on DSPEED, I see that it starts at approx. 2.5V then gradually decreases until it hits 0V.  DTAP decreases from 3MHz to 0 during this time.

I'll try to get something together to show you.

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Can you post a scope trace of your refclk together with DTAP, DSPEED and DENABLE?

Tom Schneider wrote:

Stefan,

Thanks for responding so quickly.  Yes I have my clock source going to REFCLK+ (CLKIN is the signal name on my schematic).  BIAS is 0.7V exactly, /RESET is high, A0-A3 are 0x0000, and the loop filter has a 4.7nF cap to GND with a 130ohm resistor + 1uF cap in parallel, just like the eval board.

Regarding the clock - I am not using an LVDS clock, but rather a 2.5V-level clock signal, with REFCLK- tied to 1.25V.  Sheet 9 of the datasheet states:  If no LVDS reference clock signal is available, a CMOS signal can be connected to REFCLK+ and the REFCLK input is connected to VDD/2 via a resistor divider.

Is that not a true statement?

-Tom
 

Stefan Ritt wrote:

I guess you mean "1 MHz clock at REFCLK+", and not CLKIN, there is no CLKIN, just a SRCLK, but that is someting else!

There could be many reasons why this is not working. It's hard for me to debug your board without actually having it in hands. So just some ideas:

- Supply a clean differential REFCLK, I never tried one end tied to VDD/2

- Is /RESET high?

- Is BIAS at roughly 0.7V?

- Is A0-A3 different from 1111, which puts the chip in standby

- Did you double check your loop filter?

The easiest usually is to start from a running evaluation board, then compare all pins 1:1 with your board.

Stefan

Tom Schneider wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a custom PCB design with the DRS4 chip, and I can't get the PLL to lock.  I'm feeding CLKIN with a 1MHz CMOS clock (REFCLK- tied to VDD/2), and I'm using the same loop filter as the eval board.  I see from the datasheet that the PLL is enabled by default, so I'm not writing anything to the config register on startup.  I am just driving DENABLE high approx. 100ms after startup and looking for the PLL lock bit to go high.  When I look at DTAP, I see a 3MHz signal.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

-Tom

 

 

 

 

  816   Fri Feb 26 22:12:58 2021 Stefan RittTrouble getting PLL to lock

Sounds to me like your REFCLK is not getting through or your PLL loop is open. Could be a bad solder connection. Try to measure signals not on the PCB trace, but directly on the DRS4 pins. Drive REFCLK with a proper LVDS signal. Maybe it's wrong what I wrote in the data sheet and the trick with VDD/2 is not really working.

Stefan

  817   Fri Feb 26 22:52:13 2021 Tom SchneiderTrouble getting PLL to lock

Thats not a simple modification to my PCB, but I'll give it a try.  Thanks for your help

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Sounds to me like your REFCLK is not getting through or your PLL loop is open. Could be a bad solder connection. Try to measure signals not on the PCB trace, but directly on the DRS4 pins. Drive REFCLK with a proper LVDS signal. Maybe it's wrong what I wrote in the data sheet and the trick with VDD/2 is not really working.

Stefan

 

  818   Thu Mar 4 21:36:14 2021 Tom SchneiderTrouble getting PLL to lock

I found the problem, and it had nothing to do with the CMOS clock input.  As it turns out, even though I was using the default state of the config register, I still had to write to it after powerup.  Once I did that, the PLL locked immediately.

-Tom

Tom Schneider wrote:

Thats not a simple modification to my PCB, but I'll give it a try.  Thanks for your help

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Sounds to me like your REFCLK is not getting through or your PLL loop is open. Could be a bad solder connection. Try to measure signals not on the PCB trace, but directly on the DRS4 pins. Drive REFCLK with a proper LVDS signal. Maybe it's wrong what I wrote in the data sheet and the trick with VDD/2 is not really working.

Stefan

 

 

  819   Fri Mar 5 09:39:42 2021 Stefan RittTrouble getting PLL to lock

That probably depends on the way your FPGA boots. If the SRCLK signal goes high after the SRIN - even a few ns - you might clock one or two zeros into the config register, thus disabling the PLL. Shame that I haven't thought of this before.

Stefan

  854   Fri Dec 24 03:13:32 2021 LynseyTrouble getting PLL to lock

I also design the circuit myself. Our problem is the same. Can we communicate?

Stefan Ritt wrote:

I guess you mean "1 MHz clock at REFCLK+", and not CLKIN, there is no CLKIN, just a SRCLK, but that is someting else!

There could be many reasons why this is not working. It's hard for me to debug your board without actually having it in hands. So just some ideas:

- Supply a clean differential REFCLK, I never tried one end tied to VDD/2

- Is /RESET high?

- Is BIAS at roughly 0.7V?

- Is A0-A3 different from 1111, which puts the chip in standby

- Did you double check your loop filter?

The easiest usually is to start from a running evaluation board, then compare all pins 1:1 with your board.

Stefan

Tom Schneider wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a custom PCB design with the DRS4 chip, and I can't get the PLL to lock.  I'm feeding CLKIN with a 1MHz CMOS clock (REFCLK- tied to VDD/2), and I'm using the same loop filter as the eval board.  I see from the datasheet that the PLL is enabled by default, so I'm not writing anything to the config register on startup.  I am just driving DENABLE high approx. 100ms after startup and looking for the PLL lock bit to go high.  When I look at DTAP, I see a 3MHz signal.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

-Tom

 

 

  636   Fri Nov 3 12:11:14 2017 Håkan WennlöfTriggering using AND

Hi!

I'm using the DRSOsc program, and I have a question that I need a bit clarified;

When triggering using AND between two channels, am I then triggering on rising/falling edge of both channels, or on the actual values?

That is, is it the change in value that it triggers on, or when the actual value goes above a certain threshold?

Using AND, it seems like I get a trigger when one (CH2) is above its trigger value (sometimes quite far above), and the other (CH1) changes to go above its trigger value. This works for my purposes, which is nice, but I just want to be sure I understand why it works. Ideally, I'd like to trigger when one of my channels is above a certain value, and the other has a rising edge above a certain value.

I'm sorry if it's a silly question! I've just noticed that the Keysight oscilloscopes I've used can only do one channel with a rising edge at a time when doing a logic trigger, and I thought the same thing might be going on in the background here (which would be ideal for my purposes).

 

Kind regards,

Håkan Wennlöf

  637   Fri Nov 3 13:28:04 2017 Stefan RittTriggering using AND

Think about: How would you make a coincidence (AND) between two edges? Since an edge is infinitesimally small, there is no way to make a meaningful coincidence between edges. Therefore, the DRS4 EB firmware makes a simple AND of levels. If you trigger on rising signals and do an AND, then you get a trigger if both values are above their threshold. For falling edge trigger (arrow goes down in the trigger configuration) the board triggers when both signals are BELOW the trigger threshold. So actually the singnal which crosses the threshold last determines the timing of the trigger. I see no other way how to implement an AND.

Stefan

Håkan Wennlöf wrote:

Hi!

I'm using the DRSOsc program, and I have a question that I need a bit clarified;

When triggering using AND between two channels, am I then triggering on rising/falling edge of both channels, or on the actual values?

That is, is it the change in value that it triggers on, or when the actual value goes above a certain threshold?

Using AND, it seems like I get a trigger when one (CH2) is above its trigger value (sometimes quite far above), and the other (CH1) changes to go above its trigger value. This works for my purposes, which is nice, but I just want to be sure I understand why it works. Ideally, I'd like to trigger when one of my channels is above a certain value, and the other has a rising edge above a certain value.

I'm sorry if it's a silly question! I've just noticed that the Keysight oscilloscopes I've used can only do one channel with a rising edge at a time when doing a logic trigger, and I thought the same thing might be going on in the background here (which would be ideal for my purposes).

 

Kind regards,

Håkan Wennlöf

 

  475   Thu Jan 14 21:49:37 2016 Chris ThompsonTriggering of DRS4 in the fastest sampling mode

I am attempting to use the DRS4 to measure the timing resolution of a pair of SensL silicon photomultipliers (SiPM). In order to do this I need to trigger the DRS4 only when there is a coincidence between the two input signals, and hopefully make histograms of the relative detection times of each detector.

There are two completely separate issues. (1) I think this may just be a labelling error. In the first image (OR_mode_selected) one can clearly see two pulses which are very similar. In this mode, both signals are present, and are always present. I think this should be the "AND", not "OR" of the two signals. Contrast this with the second image where I have selected "AND_mode". Clearly only one signal is present, and either signal trigges an event, so this should be "OR", not "AND"

The second issue is, for me, much more serious. I want to sample the leading edge of this event in order to determine its "time". The little "T" at the top of each image is, I believe the "trigger point" in the first two images. However, this is well after the part of the signal I am interested in. The first two images were at 2 GigaSamples/sec. The third is at 5 GigaSamples/sec. Clearly the event I am interested in processing is over by then. At the lower sampling rate, I can see well before the "T", but at the higher one I can only see after the "T". I had built an external "coincidence circuit" and the "external trigger mode" hoping to to circumvent this issue by using very long cables to delay the signals inut to the DRS4, But even then I have not been successful in getting the to work.

I am using version 5.0.3 on a PC as the version released after that did not work.

I hope some can help!

Chris Thompson

Attachment 1: OR_mode_selected.jpg
OR_mode_selected.jpg
Attachment 2: AND_mode_selected.jpg
AND_mode_selected.jpg
Attachment 3: 20ns_per_div.jpg
20ns_per_div.jpg
  476   Fri Jan 15 08:09:00 2016 Stefan RittTriggering of DRS4 in the fastest sampling mode

Hi Chris,

if you ever used an oscilloscope, you might be familar with the button controlling the riger in respect to "risign edge" vs. "falling edge". I copied the same for the DRS software. So just click on that button:

 

and you will get what you want. Also the AND/OR gets reversed this way. If you select rising edge (default), the AND will be made if both signals are ABOVE the threshold, that's why it does not work for you. If you select falling edge, the AND will be made if both signals are BELOW the threshold. For negative pulses you need falling edge.

Stefan

Chris Thompson wrote:

I am attempting to use the DRS4 to measure the timing resolution of a pair of SensL silicon photomultipliers (SiPM). In order to do this I need to trigger the DRS4 only when there is a coincidence between the two input signals, and hopefully make histograms of the relative detection times of each detector.

There are two completely separate issues. (1) I think this may just be a labelling error. In the first image (OR_mode_selected) one can clearly see two pulses which are very similar. In this mode, both signals are present, and are always present. I think this should be the "AND", not "OR" of the two signals. Contrast this with the second image where I have selected "AND_mode". Clearly only one signal is present, and either signal trigges an event, so this should be "OR", not "AND"

The second issue is, for me, much more serious. I want to sample the leading edge of this event in order to determine its "time". The little "T" at the top of each image is, I believe the "trigger point" in the first two images. However, this is well after the part of the signal I am interested in. The first two images were at 2 GigaSamples/sec. The third is at 5 GigaSamples/sec. Clearly the event I am interested in processing is over by then. At the lower sampling rate, I can see well before the "T", but at the higher one I can only see after the "T". I had built an external "coincidence circuit" and the "external trigger mode" hoping to to circumvent this issue by using very long cables to delay the signals inut to the DRS4, But even then I have not been successful in getting the to work.

I am using version 5.0.3 on a PC as the version released after that did not work.

I hope some can help!

Chris Thompson

 

  621   Thu Jul 6 15:10:48 2017 Esperienza GioveTrigger setting (AND AND) OR (AND AND)

Hello there,

is it possible to setup trigger in double AND configuration (a pair in and or other pair in and). 

eg (CH 1 AND CH 2 ) OR ( CH 3 AND CH4)

Thank you

  622   Fri Jul 7 10:31:47 2017 Stefan RittTrigger setting (AND AND) OR (AND AND)

Unfortunately not with the current firmware.

Stefan

Esperienza Giove wrote:

Hello there,

is it possible to setup trigger in double AND configuration (a pair in and or other pair in and). 

eg (CH 1 AND CH 2 ) OR ( CH 3 AND CH4)

Thank you

 

  487   Thu Mar 31 19:30:26 2016 Abaz KryemadhiTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

  488   Thu Mar 31 19:35:06 2016 Stefan RittTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

  489   Thu Mar 31 19:44:38 2016 Abaz KryemadhiTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

Ok, thanks!  do you know an easy in-line inverter like mini-circuit or digikey?    Can also redesign the detector I gues to produce positive signals, just it might be easier if there was a simple inverter if you are aware of? thanks Abaz

Stefan Ritt wrote:

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

 

  490   Thu Mar 31 20:34:25 2016 Stefan RittTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

Here is one (SI 100): https://www.picoquant.com/products/category/accessories/adapters-splitters-cables-various-accessories-for-photon-counting-setups

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Ok, thanks!  do you know an easy in-line inverter like mini-circuit or digikey?    Can also redesign the detector I gues to produce positive signals, just it might be easier if there was a simple inverter if you are aware of? thanks Abaz

Stefan Ritt wrote:

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

 

 

  491   Thu Mar 31 20:38:05 2016 Abaz KryemadhiTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

Thanks, that looks just fine.

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Here is one (SI 100): https://www.picoquant.com/products/category/accessories/adapters-splitters-cables-various-accessories-for-photon-counting-setups

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Ok, thanks!  do you know an easy in-line inverter like mini-circuit or digikey?    Can also redesign the detector I gues to produce positive signals, just it might be easier if there was a simple inverter if you are aware of? thanks Abaz

Stefan Ritt wrote:

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

 

 

 

  492   Thu Mar 31 20:48:00 2016 Chris ThompsonTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

I needed a fast pulse inverter in order to feed signals from the recent SensL SiPMs into a conventional CFD which only accepted negative signals. I got a very small ferite torridal transformer from Coilcraft and wired up to invert signals then inserted into in 50 ohm coax cable and it works fine. These things cost only a few cents each!

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Thanks, that looks just fine.

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Here is one (SI 100): https://www.picoquant.com/products/category/accessories/adapters-splitters-cables-various-accessories-for-photon-counting-setups

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Ok, thanks!  do you know an easy in-line inverter like mini-circuit or digikey?    Can also redesign the detector I gues to produce positive signals, just it might be easier if there was a simple inverter if you are aware of? thanks Abaz

Stefan Ritt wrote:

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

 

 

 

 

  493   Fri Apr 1 01:30:40 2016 Abaz KryemadhiTrigger on the And of a positive and negative signal

Hi Chris,

 I am looking at Sensl SiPMs as well,  can you send the part number from Coilcraft?

Thanks!

Abaz

Chris Thompson wrote:

I needed a fast pulse inverter in order to feed signals from the recent SensL SiPMs into a conventional CFD which only accepted negative signals. I got a very small ferite torridal transformer from Coilcraft and wired up to invert signals then inserted into in 50 ohm coax cable and it works fine. These things cost only a few cents each!

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Thanks, that looks just fine.

Stefan Ritt wrote:

Here is one (SI 100): https://www.picoquant.com/products/category/accessories/adapters-splitters-cables-various-accessories-for-photon-counting-setups

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

Ok, thanks!  do you know an easy in-line inverter like mini-circuit or digikey?    Can also redesign the detector I gues to produce positive signals, just it might be easier if there was a simple inverter if you are aware of? thanks Abaz

Stefan Ritt wrote:

No. You have to use an inverter for one of your signals.

Stefan

Abaz Kryemadhi wrote:

I would like to be able to trigger in this fashon:  channel 0 > 0.1 and. channel 1< -0.1,  because I have a positive and a negative signal.  Can DRS4 (5) Eval board do this kind of trigger?

Thanks!

Abaz

 

 

 

 

 

 

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